TrueSpace7.6 at no charge (Free)

[gmd3d]

perhaps what's called for it a Help Thread for Truespace .. ??

Well, I'm a guy who owned tS versions 1.0 through 5.1, before giving up on it.

I downloaded and installed 7.6, to find out it is actually two programs now, and uses a bridge to get between them. Then I found out it lacks the abilities of older versions to import anything but .obj, and the only reason it can do that is because of a plug-in.

After speaking to a bunch of old friends who still use tS, mostly for modeling, I think they should have waited and gave away 8. Too many problems with this version to be much of a selling point.

Just my 2 cents

[evil_genius_180]

I'm not too thrilled with it either. I bought a new(ish) PC and it runs 7.6 but it keeps freezing up on me. Plus, I think someone was on something when they designed the interface. The default layout is complete BS. I switched it to the tS 6 layout just so it would look somewhat normal. I have a new RAM upgrade on the way and, if that doesn't help the freezing, I'll probably dump it and stick with trueSpace 4. (or switch to Blender)

I haven't tried Blender on my new PC but tS 4 flies and isn't completely FUBAR, like tS 7 appears to be.

I've got 4 gigs of ram 3.5 usable and it does not stop the freezing. People have told me the freezing has to do with the ram on the video card and the video card being used.

I've already taken it off my machine. Version 8 is suppose to be the old interface replaced with the new one so you don't have to deal with two programs linked together. I'm still trying to find a copy of Lightwave I can afford. :^)

[evil_genius_180]

Well, I have 256MB of dedicated system RAM running to my video card, twice the "recommended" RAM in the system requirements but they don't tell you which kinds of video cards work best with the stupid thing. Given the choice of a buggy program much newer with a FUBAR interface and the 10-year-old program that runs very smoothly on my new PC, I'm sure I'll wind up sticking with the 10-year-old version. I'm still gonna try tS 7.6 after I get my RAM upgrade (should be delivered tomorrow) just to see what it does.

The few people who have told me the cards they have are using Nvidia 8600 and 8800 gt's with 512 to 1gig of ram. Also, some of the later or bigger ATI cards again most have at least 512 meg of g-ram.

You sound like me, use what works!

[evil_genius_180]

Yeah, I'm one of those people who doesn't replace something until it doesn't work anymore or an unbeatable deal comes along (and free software is pretty unbeatable.) But not all free software is something better, even newer software. A lot of trueSpace users I've met online feel that tS 4 is the best of the series and, from what I've seen, that's true.

My reconditioned Acer PC I bought has a Nvidia GeForce 6100 n405 built in with 256MB RAM, which is an older chipset. So, thanks for the info. Now I know that the program is just FUBAR, even on a much better graphics adapter than mine, I certainly won't run out to buy a new PCI Express GFX card just to run that stupid program.

Does tS rely on the OpenGL capabilities on the graphics sub-system? I know it renders in real-time using DirectX.

I can't say for sure but maybe an update to your video drivers or an OpenGL bug fix would help. Out of the mainstream video card manufacturers nVidia does a pretty decent job with OpenGL so you shouldn't have too many issues with their hardware unless it's one of the cards they no longer develop the drivers for.

One possible problem is that you are using a 'shared memory' graphics device EG. Some software has major issues talking to the graphics subsystem when it shares main system memory. There are some settings in your BIOS that affect the way that main memory is used and addressed. You may have some luck looking at those too.

I have 2 heavily CPU and graphics intensive games that simply refuse to run without random hanging when used with onboard 'shared memory' graphics cards.

Hope this helps.

UA

I agree, a low level graphics card is better than an onboard chip that takes memory away from your main memory. tS has an icon that allows you to switch between OpenGL and DirectX.

[evil_genius_180]

Yeah, but that only is supposed to affect solid display mode. It still freezes up in wireframe mode. I still say there's something seriously wrong with this program.

[evil_genius_180]

I've come to a startling revelation about tS 7.6 that makes it pretty friggin' useless to anyone who used other versions of the program for years: I don't think it likes Caliagari .cob objects at all. Every time I try to load my tS 4 objects that load very quickly on my new PC in tS 4, tS 7.6 either takes forever to load the object or freezes during the load. Then, if I get the model to load, it freezes while I'm moving around the model in the 3D space. I looked at the folder containing all the freebie objects that came with 7.6 and they're in another format. For some reason, the powers-that-be at Caligari decided to use another format which would be fine, if the old format was 100% supported, which it doesn't seem to be. So, I'm not so sure it has anything to do with video cards or RAM, it just doesn't like all my tS 4 meshes, which makes it pretty useless to me, since I made a lot of meshes with tS4.

[gmd3d]

I'd bin it mate .. ..

what does this mean for the future for TS in general .. ??

[Kai]

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

I've come to a startling revelation about tS 7.6 that makes it pretty friggin' useless to anyone who used other versions of the program for years: I don't think it likes Caliagari .cob objects at all. Every time I try to load my tS 4 objects that load very quickly on my new PC in tS 4, tS 7.6 either takes forever to load the object or freezes during the load. Then, if I get the model to load, it freezes while I'm moving around the model in the 3D space. I looked at the folder containing all the freebie objects that came with 7.6 and they're in another format. For some reason, the powers-that-be at Caligari decided to use another format which would be fine, if the old format was 100% supported, which it doesn't seem to be. So, I'm not so sure it has anything to do with video cards or RAM, it just doesn't like all my tS 4 meshes, which makes it pretty useless to me, since I made a lot of meshes with tS4.

ok thats strange cos all my 4.3 meshes are loading into 7.6 here with no problems at all....

have you checked for shaders? I did have some issues before I copied my shader folder from 4 to 7...

[evil_genius_180]

Thanks for the idea. I hadn't thought of that. I guess I just assumed that everything would be there, since it's a newer version of the program but I could be wrong. I might have to re-install tS 7.6 and check it out.

Originally Posted by UrbanArmitage

I started trying trueSpace 7.6 out the other day too and I agree that it can be quite difficult to grasp and frustrating. I must say though that once I figure out the process to do something it actually comes quite naturally. I'm not even close to being any good with it yet but i'm persevering.

I found with the really basic tutorial where you create a rudamentory sci-fi runabout I was battling like crazy to find the tool icons they were referring to and I became very frustrated. Then I realised that I was using Model space instead of Workspace. When I switched over to Workspace I found the tools in no time. To change between the two look at the top left of the screen for 2 tabs labelled Workspace and Model. I hope this helps a bit.

UA

I'll give it a try...thanks!

[Raymar3d]

Even if this version is buggy/confusing, it's good to have the free registered copy, because if they're not closing down development, there's always a chance that patches will come along to fix some items.

I installed it, and opened it up to make sure it works, but haven't had time to play with it much yet. I was hoping to open up some of the fantastic Truespace models found here, then I realized that our Evil_Genius was having troubles with the program, and since he made those models... it does not bode well.

Still, I'll give it a try!

Ken

[evil_genius_180]

An extra gigabyte of RAM really fixed most of the problems I was having. I still like the tools in tS 4 better for modeling but I've been modeling in 4 and then importing everything into 7 and painting and rendering with it because it has better material settings, lights and some better rendering options (though not much has changed there.) So, despite what it says at Caligari, the program will run with only 1GB of RAM but if you want it to run well (especially in Vista) you really need 2GB.

All it takes is an extra gig to fix the problems? <sigh> The only new feature that I'm really keen on is the HDRI rendering. But I can't get a handle on those nodes and the program seems so damn bloated and confusing. I can get TS6.6 started on a few frames of an animation before I can get TS7 fully loaded or switch between workspaces.

[evil_genius_180]

Yeah, only an extra gig.

I got lucky, the RAM my PC takes was only about $20 with shipping for 1GB from NewEgg, but I know some people have more expensive RAM than that. I haven't really played around with the HDRI setting at all and I can't take that tS 7 interface, I use the included tS 6 interface (with a few modifications) because it's more like the older versions.

All said and done, I'm not completely warm and fuzzy about the program but you can't beat the price tag. Plus, it has some nice features if you don't mind the fact that it doesn't respond as quickly as the older versions, most of which were designed for Pentium and Pentium II computers running 64 and 128 MB of RAM. (except tS 6, I think it at least requires a Pentium III and 256 RAM)

[Kai]

ah... lets put it this way..

to run ANYTHING well in Vista you need a base of 2GB..... (always take the 'recommended' and double it when it comes to windows...trust me.. this has been true since windows 1)

[evil_genius_180]

trueSpace 4 ran beautifully in Vista with only 1GB of RAM.

[Kai]

and on the machine I have here running vista, nothing ran on 1GB... it took 5 minutes to boot for example (I timed it!) and thats a 2ghz 64bit AMD turion laptop!

slapped another gig in, and everything started working fine...

The thing to bear in mind is that there are various ways in which the performance of any Windows operating system can be enhanced, or for that matter negatively affected. I'm not just talking about processor, memory and hard drive space.

Some examples are disk access speed (Parallel ATA, SATA, SATA II, etc, and seek times on the drive), swap file space available and allocated, swap file set to dynamic or static, optional and unnecessary services enabled or disabled, anti-virus (BIG influence with some anti-virus apps like Symantec), device drivers loading, optimization of operating system performance towards background services or foreground apps, applications running in the background like printer managers etc which appear on the applet bar, and so on. These are just the mor obvious ones. There are many more ways to enhance performance under Windows but they usually require in-depth knowledge of the operating system and fiddling deep under the bonnet.

UA

[Kai]

well to get vista running on the laptop with 1gb I had to : disable aero. disable UAC. Turn off about a dozen services. switch the appearence to basic windows... then we could use it a little..

put in the extra Gig and it's flying now... but hang on.. I lobo'd it back to XP!!!

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Kai

and on the machine I have here running vista, nothing ran on 1GB... it took 5 minutes to boot for example (I timed it!) and thats a 2ghz 64bit AMD turion laptop!

slapped another gig in, and everything started working fine...

It also depends on the amount of RAM your display adapter draws. Mine only draws 256 MB dedicated RAM (though it can draw more.) Yours might have 512 MB or higher dedicated. That's something that the company that built your PC should have recognized and added more RAM because Microsoft sent warnings to all the PC manufacturers about the RAM that Vista itself uses.

[Kai]

set to 128. I checked that first... I have been setting up computers for a while.... (started on a BBC Model A in '83 at school, got my own Spectrum 48k+ in 84.... )

[gmd3d]

I have under 1 Gig ..

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Kai

set to 128. I checked that first... I have been setting up computers for a while.... (started on a BBC Model A in '83 at school, got my own Spectrum 48k+ in 84.... )

OK, then I'm stumped. I have no idea why you couldn't run more stuff in Vista with 1 GB of RAM. It sounds like you'd have a better idea of why it did that than I do anyway. I've only been working with computers since the '90s myself and it's all done on my own, no real training other than some classes in Works and Visual Basic in high school. Learning how to swap out components and completely rebuild computers and how to get the right components for your system is something I learned out of necessity when stuff broke.

Originally Posted by Taranis

I have under 1 Gig ..

Yeah, but you're running XP, right? If you're running XP, 1GB of RAM is plenty. I had XP set up on a computer with 128 MB RAM and it ran just fine.

[gmd3d]

XP quickly starting to falter .. Vista .. I have only heard bad news from it

[evil_genius_180]

With all the patches and updates that are out there (especially SP1) Vista is doing a lot better, IMO. I haven't had the problems that a lot of people had at first with it. The main issue with XP is that it is 7 years old and was never designed for things like multi-core systems. Sure, there are patches for that (which you get with SP3) but, from what I hear, there are still issues. Besides, more and more software and hardware is being designed for Vista. I'm certainly not saying you should switch but, if you need to buy a new PC (and can actually afford one ) don't let Vista be the non-selling point. It's a lot better than it used to be, from what I hear.