Starship Exeter: Exeter Rising" Fan Story mini-series

I'm not sure where the thread is but I know some of us were talking about being annoyed by the lack of quality models used. Maybe I was the only one complaining - I don't know.
I know this - there are some fantastic meshes out there that can make a TOS era Trek story look awesome and fresh.

I have a TOS 1701 mesh that looks great.
I'll take a screen shot and show you so you can decide if you'd like to use it.

Sounds good to me.

But finish what you started. Now i feel bad over the time you've invested. The shots still look gorgeous. Finish it as you were intending to do it and then we'll worry about redoing it in TOS models and look later. I wanna see what you were origionally gonna lay on me. You do have my curiousity even thought it won't fit into the story given the time frame.

As far as TOS-R...hated the models. I hated the re-storyboarding. If they did a shot for shot replacement mirroring the origional shots I wouldn't have minded as much. I like Daren Docterman's work on the Doomsday Machine better. I would take his planet killer and put the internal flame action of the CBS-R version inside it instead. This is definately one point Dennis calls it exactly as I was thinking.

Well, I can look for a Klingon/Romulan ship that's a TOS one but they have very little detail.

If what I'm doing isn't going to work I should stop now and start over with lower detail meshes and no specularity mapping.

If you want to. I jsut felt bad since you put some effort into it to just toss it on a dime. I didn't want to cause some hurt feelings. But for the record...leave the two shots up you posted. They're pretty.

I saw yesterday on the downlaods on theis board a TOS Klingon hull. that would be the one I would want to use. But apart form the different model, do everything else you were doing.

Wait until you see the film version of the still shots.

I looked for the TOS Klingon but must have missed it.
I can redo the whole thing with that one if you'd like.

Yeah...go ahead then. I'm just grateful either way...even if you finish it as you started it.

This one...saw it yesterday before I joined. But no red light on the rear hull or the top front grill on top. But in the same colors as the ones in the shot A3-1 that's posted earlier in this thread.

http://www.3dgladiators.net/tos/ships/klin_d7.php

Ok, I'll reshoot with that mesh.
If you could point me to an example of what you want the weapon to look like that would save time too. Odds are mine is ...well... lets just say it's not that 67ish. LOL!

This is what I want the plasma to look like as seen in "Balance of Terror". That should be the ultimate reference. But this should do for easy reference.

19. A3-83

Ok it's a good thing I've stopped.
I have an very different weapon going on.
No, this is not a photon torpedo effect - I have some of those that are spot on!
LOL!

http://wabashponies.com/dan/small-test-1.wmv (3mb @ 320x240)

Thanks. The plasma should look and move just like it did and be totally indistingusable from waht is seen in BOT.

Think of it as I'm trying to fool people with "counterfeitted effects" to act as a Trojan Horse to get under their "this is different radar". I want them to have a double take while watching it realizing this is new but not realizing it until after they watched it like "The Tressarian Intersection." Kindof a "Lost batch of 1967 / 1968 Desilu Trek episodes with Gene Roddenbury's TOS Trek fingerprints all over it top to bottom. My thinking is....if it is set in the Exeter timeline and universe..it should look it to be a seamles match to push the TOS universe forward. And I want to be sneaky and mess with their heads since the power is in the story. The brainscrew is how the story adds power to the old visuals...which I plan on noone to be expecting given how alot of later Trek is and alot of recent views tha TOS was lame. I intend to blow that point of view out of the water. I want to supplement the TOS Trek uinvierse to where it is TOTALLY indistinguishable from TOS down to the last minute detail. That's the thing I want to throw everyone for a monumental loop...is all this crap hitting the fan in the mini-series I'm writing. It's alot and demanding using the old visuals....which should be a huge surprise to anyone if they ever get to watch it if it was done the way I'm hoping for. I'm confident that Gene Roddenbury would be proud since I think it represents the best of TOS Trek universe and sub-characters. But with the Exeter characters and ship. I want people's heads to explode and be caught totally off guard by the tinme they are finished with episode 12. But for now I've shelved the writing of 8 - 12 to kick out into the open some visuals to hook people into reading it.

You ought to see the shot I am getting ready to story board for the opening sequence for the second story. My story editor Jim Bray is chomping at the bit and pestering for me to get something done on it. I may start doing the hand drawn animation on it tonight. HE says the second sequence you planned on animating wit hthe Exeter cutting acros the attack formation, and the opening shot of my second story is what he is salivating to see done.

I'll guess you'll have to read it to understand what I am trying to do. Maybe while you're waiting for the renders to get done.:laugh:

Fretslayer. Just viewed the small test. Defiantely a different weapon. But it still looks VERY nice.

Thinking about what you are going after I would think that Flash would work perfectly for you.

Have you ever messed with it before?

You can make the wepon fire in Photoshop (save it as a gif) then import it into Flash (the background will be transparent) and when the ship fires it toward you, you use the 'Tween' feature and then just scale the size of the plasma burst to something larger and it'll appear to come closer.

Also you'll be able to take a still shot of the Starships (from a few different angles) and import them into it as well.

Plus Flash animations take up very little bandwidth (when you want them to) and most people can already view the files.

Another thing is that you work in layers just like Photoshop.

If you're going for the TV TOS look and things like specularity and bump mapping aren't that important then Flash might be good tool to look into.

Okay...good place for me to start asking questions...like what is Specularity or bump mapping? I better start learnign the terminology. And for that matter what program do I start with what do I do first to begin learning? Flash?...sounds good as how it's strnegths can be applied for my application of it. I am not sure if I can output flash. I will have to check my output options for Premiere 6.0.

The best way I can explain specularity and bump mapping is to show you.
Give me a moment and I'll render a couple of images with and without them.

An example I can give of lack of specularity is the Enterprise in TOS and the TOS remasters. The ship looks like its painted all white and all the same shade. Like the walls inside a room. Specularity is when you see that same ship but as the light hits it, you can see all of the seperate pieces of metal and panals that make up the larger ship.

Bump mapping is also similar.

As for 'what program' I'm not sure if you mean CG software or something else.

CG....

Take a look at this link.
There are a lot of good resources there for cutting your CG teeth.


http://www.3dgladiators.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=22681

I've already downloaded Truspace and Blender and installed them. So what do I do now?

I'm looking at eh list of programs listed at the beginning of the page...

I don't use either of the programs you downloaded so I am not the guy to ask about either.
I am sure there is somebody here though who can answer them and help you with them.

Evil Genius is a TrueSpace guru so odds are he can point you in the right direction with that app.

What little modeling I do is done in 3DsMax.

On to the specularty and bump map question.

Here's some examples
This one has the specularty on - new Trek stuff has this effect.


And this image has no specularity. The old Trek has this look.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Robert Simmons

I've already downloaded Truspace and Blender and installed them. So what do I do now?

I will point EvilGenius180 your way .. he is our resident TRUESPACE guru ..

Not sure if there are many Blender users here .. .. but no worries .. We will find some if not ..

But you have to start learning how things work and why

if you want to start working out how to render a scene for animating..

So that's what you have to do.

Open Truespace. (it should have model or object by default) and work out how the lighting works.. how to position your camera .. all 3d programs work this way ..

and play with the controls until you have a working idea how to arrive where you need too..

I have truespace .. I will reload it today and see if I can give you a good enough account of where to start ... but eg180 is the man....

or look for evil_genius_180 fantastic model of the Enterprise.
Here is a link .. now TrueSpace object files or 3D Format: .cob
http://www.3dgladiators.net/dloads/d...p?image_id=205
it should work in the Truespace you downloaded..

[gmd3d]

Robert here is a link to some Tutorials most are for older versions of Truespace but the concepts should be the same.. I will look for more .. but check here often as the staff are sourcing as much tutorials as possible..

Truespace Tutorials lin
http://www.lunadude.com/tS/tS-tutorials.htm


http://www.3dgladiators.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=22780

[evil_genius_180]

Hi, I haven't read through everything (though I do plan to) but I'm confused by something. Taranis, are you working on this project? 'Cause I noticed this thread was apparently started by you but Robert Simmons seems to be the guy actually working on this. Or are you both working on it? Also, is this project at all related to this fan film series:

http://www.starshipexeter.com/

[gmd3d]

No I am not involved .. well perhaps not yet .. Its Robert baby ...

I screwed up. instead of Moving the posts in the introduction Thread

I merged them.. when I did finally move them they ended up at the top on the this thread post ..making it the first post ??

no idea how to fix that

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

Hi, I haven't read through everything (though I do plan to) but I'm confused by something. Taranis, are you working on this project? 'Cause I noticed this thread was apparently started by you but Robert Simmons seems to be the guy actually working on this. Or are you both working on it? Also, is this project at all related to this fan film series:

http://www.starshipexeter.com/

I never met an evil genius before...pleased to meet you. As to your question at if what my "little" project is connected to Jimm and Josh Johnson's Starship Exeter..yes and no. The storys presented here are my fan stories based on their premise of the TOS timeframe and characters and ship. These stories were origionally just one demo story to float a premise as an idea for a "offical syndicated Exeter TV series" if ever such a thing might ever become a possiblity IF Paramount then in Jan 2004 could ever be convicned to revisit the TOS timeframe. Then it was seen as a far reaching hypothetical as an idea given Paramount's less than a open ear to the fans up till that point. I tossed this out into open forum discussions then with a less than luke warm reception on the board. Jimm and Josh...you gotta love them despite their showing little interest limited to in only considering and selecting stories and only wanting to producing only the limited 12 episodes ( I think ) they origionally wrote back in 1995 for Exeter. What I was proposing was a quick and dirty way to fill in the gaps between their stories as a means to fill out and make more matierial if a syndicated series for Exeter ever came about. BAsically a series of posts revisitng the TOS races with each race would serve as a story arce to blend from one of their stories chronologically into their next story in sequence. I mainly was floating a hypothetical proposal that seemed to toally fall flat with most people participating in the discussion.....which left me scratching my head deeply puzzled. I had a small handful of participants on Dennis Bailiey's Subspace BBS then and a few other dis-associated friends who liked the idea and encouraged me to pursue writing the stories, since it seemed to strike a nerve of interest in them. Around that time Jimm Johnson Private Messaged me and made a few positive comments to the effect that he had read through what little I posted online up to the opening of the battle in the first story and mentioned that I had a handle on the "voice " of the characters. That was around early 2004. He never really said much about it since then until I met him 1 month after "The Tressarian Intersection" wrapped filming. I asked if he finished reaing the first story and he commented "If I ever finish writing it" even though I had only a couple of paragraphs left to finish writing the first story at that point. That was mid August 2004 whil on my Vacation to Texas. I offered to give him everything outright as his and Josh's to produce of they wanted it WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED. Jimm at least to me seemed to show no sign of interest. So all that you see written is mine done by me, edited by Jim Bray who thinks Jimm and Josh need to get their heads examined for basically ignoring the entire idea and project. My offer still stands 4 years later even though this has mushroomed to 7 finished "scripts" out of 12 projected. I guess I really am the stupid and dense one here. Everyone mostly on the board seemed to act like they didn't see or "get" what I was proposing and seemed to act cold on the idea. As a means to try to demonstrate the idea I wrote some and looked ot see if they "got it". Same result. So I wrote more....and same result. Over and over. I guess everyone thought if they would play dumb they would get a story out of me. So I was determined to write it as best as I can to demonstrate the concept to that they would see and "get it". And that now is 4 years later...I have 2 /3rds of the projected story written, and these storybaordsand animatics I posted here and the remaining little shreads of story outlines for the remianing 5 episode stories. I guess over time I felt if I kept nickle and diming pushing the concept in time, it would be so obvious that it would be hard to see the appeal or not to appreciate what I was trying to show others who initally participated in that origional discussion. But what you see here is what started out with a idea and a roughly cobbled up demo story to illustrate that concept has mushroomed into what you see now. A while back gave up on trying to treat it as a means to "sell" the idea, and began to treat it as a "real story" instead of a minimalist demo story to show what I was trying to make the case for. My offer to Jimm and Josh that all of this mini-series in all of it's entirety is theirs if they want it with no strings attached. That offer still stands the same today/ I've talked a couple of times to Josh on the phone and he shows no interest whatsoever giving me no sign he has ever read it. So after coming to the embarassing and painful conclusion that hey weren't interested and would never be interested in producing it, I decided to just finish what I started along the lines of what I origionally proposed just to see how it would all pan out story wise. Pretty much the story has gone and panned out as I initially floated in open forum, but has expanded way beyond where I origionally intended and had been a mental challenge weaving the entire story within the confines of TOS Trek canon and Exeter canon to show that a new project with a good story can be cut entirely from within prior existing historical TOS Trek canon. Basically look at the landscape of the holes / gaps in Trek official history at that time and fill in the blanks using the Exeter cahracters to carry the TOS universe forward in the same direction it was going before "THe Motion Picture" came out.

I never intended initially that what I was writing was ever gonna be produced. I wanted Jimm and Josh to entertain the idea and pursue it. But having a few friends who really like the story and commenting that I needed some picture to catch people's attention to make it easier to understand what is going on, I decided to draw some storyboard shots. They were sloppy and my heart really wasn't into it. But after some piddling with the sloppy storyboards about 3 months ago I got mad and knuckled under and got serious dragging out of storage my old animation stand and began to hand draw as best as I can after not drawing for 20 years the shots from my TOS models I have sitting on my shelf in the loft. Around a month ago I decided to experiment with taking pictures of them and making still shots with the backgrounds and effect photoshopped in so to make it easier for any reader to visualize the story. I know that Jimm and Josh may still have the Exeter sets and will most likely never shoot this stuff I'm writing. But I began to entertain the idea about a month ago that if I keep plugging away at this and nickle and diming this that in time I would have the effects reel done and then can turn my attention to the "live action" for the story as well. I planned on doing the hand drawings for the animatics, but I have had a couple recently suggest to me that I could consider using digital characters on the basis that Studio Exeter may have the actors and sets but that doesn't necessarily mean that I am out in the cold without any means to present their characters and setting despite that. Hence my recently beginning to entertain the idea of doing CG ship and sets and characters. Hence raymar3d ( Ken Thompson ) suggesting to me to check out this forum as a means to get me started in that direction. As for my story's in relation to Jimm and Josh's characters and intellectual property of Starship Exeter....it's theirs if they still want it. My stories seek not to rip off Jimm and Josh, but to promote them more as a means of making them look better. I wish they would take me up on my offer to let them produce them. But they have other things like family life and real world concerns like day in and day out like the rest of us. But who knows....if this ever snowballs to a video ....Fine. If it screeches to a halt in the form you see as it stands now...fine. But I couldn't live withmyself if I didn't at least pursue seeing how far it will go if given the attention I can afford to give it. If others want to help...great. If others don't..that's fine too. I just don't want my conscience nagging me if I walked away and did not pursue the whole min-series idea as a means to fully flesh out what I was origionally proposing in the open forum discussions back then in Jan 2004. I'd have my conscience to deal with wondering what I might have accomplished if I had only made the effrot and applied myself. And I am curious to see what it ultimately will amount to. I haven't accomplished much in my life due to some numerous and pretty hard setbacks. And this is pretty much the only chance I will have to see what I have been wanting to do will amount to stoywise. Will it be good or bad? And maybe even visually....will what the story presents. Will it be good or bad. I don't know. But leaving it lay left to rot neglected as a story idea would bug me batty. And I don't think I can live with that.

As far as 3d programs. I'm happy to download and start using any one of the ones you recommend besides the 2 I've already downloaded and installed. I would like it to be easy. I don't fare well when learning is difficult. That's pretty much anything I can say aobut my life.

So where do we begin? Your call....

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Robert Simmons

I never met an evil genius before...pleased to meet you.

So where do we begin? Your call....

evilgenius180 is the orignal evil genius

he is also our resident Trek modelling master. here is just one of the Trek ships
he has made in Truespace .. there are more besides..

[evil_genius_180]

Wow, that's quite a story. No offense intended, especially if you really admire those guys, but Jimm and Josh really sound like A-holes to me. One of them could have at least read your story, even if they had no intention of using it, and then given you a solid reason for rejecting it, instead of ignoring you completely. Now, I haven't seen their episodes (yet), so I don't know how their series stacks up to other fan film projects, but it's pretty conceited to believe that only your stories are worthy to be produced for your fan film project, as they clearly do. I know they have limited production resources and they want to get their stories out there, but they could at lest concede the point that there very well could be someone else who will come along with a better story idea than them. (I'm not saying yours is better, I'm just saying it's possible.) But they apparently just want to ignore other writers and do their own thing, and that's certainly their rite.

But kudos to you for pursuing your own ideas also. Just because they ignored it doesn't mean you should give up on your dream. I think going completely CG is definitely a good idea, especially if you can't afford to build your own sets or hire actors. All CG takes is an investment in time from you. And you can get people to read the parts for you or just read them yourself and change the voices digitally. And there are free programs for mixing effects and music, so you really could do a CG production all on your own, if you wanted to.

Originally Posted by Taranis

No I am not involved .. well perhaps not yet .. Its Robert baby ...

I screwed up. instead of Moving the posts in the introduction Thread

I merged them.. when I did finally move them they ended up at the top on the this thread post ..making it the first post ??

no idea how to fix that

Yeah, I was wondering if that might have been the case. And I'm not sure if you can fix it or not either (or even if I could do it.)

Originally Posted by Taranis

evilgenius180 is the orignal evil genius

he is also our resident Trek modelling master.

You elevate me too high, sir. We have many Trek modeling masters around here.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

You elevate me too high, sir. We have many Trek modeling masters around here.

I know.. but I like to encourage.. every one

there are many masters of Trek modelling here .. I am hoping to join that list someday Trek modelling that is

EG your meshes are really good. I've spent alot of time animating them from countless angles and they always hold up.

As for the story thing - perhaps they're not being arrogant but protecting their vision of their project. I've made suggestions to people before on how I think their project could be improved only to have them say 'thanks, but no thanks'. I don't take it as arrogance but differening visions of the project and since it's their baby, I step away.

That's why it's always best to work on your own projects and keep your creative team as small as possible while still being effective.

I have an animated project I'm making for a friend's BSG fan site and there are times when he suggests things and I tell him to go pound sand but every now and then his does hit on something that improves the project and so I go with it.

That's just my two cents though.

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

Wow, that's quite a story. No offense intended, especially if you really admire those guys, but Jimm and Josh really sound like A-holes to me. One of them could have at least read your story, even if they had no intention of using it, and then given you a solid reason for rejecting it, instead of ignoring you completely. Now, I haven't seen their episodes (yet), so I don't know how their series stacks up to other fan film projects, but it's pretty conceited to believe that only your stories are worthy to be produced for your fan film project, as they clearly do. I know they have limited production resources and they want to get their stories out there, but they could at lest concede the point that there very well could be someone else who will come along with a better story idea than them. (I'm not saying yours is better, I'm just saying it's possible.) But they apparently just want to ignore other writers and do their own thing, and that's certainly their rite.

I choose to not disrespect them, since I think they have done the best Trek fan film out there and I want to openly give them my unwavering support. Jimm and Josh have been burned before by those they took into their previous trust, and they are understandablywary of extenbing that again and it takes time to gain trust of those who have been by those professing enthusiasm for their deep time cash and efforts out of their own pockets to make what we have seen of Exeter. And they are very concerned about not making that same mistake TWICE. And I can't say that I blame them either and wisah to make it clear that i am in no way speaking ill of them and do not wish to appear of wanting to speak ill of them. They deserve their proper respect for what they have done, and i in no way wish to take away form them that. The wife has me strapped in cash so I can't support them financially in cash donations. So I try to support them in other ways. Some people have come to the conclusion that they may be "insert unflattering term here", but I choose to be understanding and not disrespect them which I think would VERY COUNTER-PRODCUTIVE TO my goals that incidentally co-incide with theirs ...and which for me which is a ancillary bonus wanting to see more Exeter in the future. I recommend it heartily. I consider myself forgiving...after all we all want that shown to us, and showing it serves no harm to them. In fact inthe long term I think it will be of a tremendous benefit. All I need to do is be cool and be patient like we all should. None of us is perfect and most certainly have little patience to spare when we are focused on the things we want to accomplish and life tosses major setbacks in the way like Josh's recent divorce and his dealing with putting his life back on track. I have some friends who are close to him and even they have dropped some hints he is majorly miserable given having his life turned upside down. IN fact this one event has from what little I hear has helped Jimm and Josh become closer as brothers which is good and from what i hears is helping to pave the way for more Exeter episodes to potentially be made after TTI is finished. I know little and think this is a special set of circumstances where some understanding would be positive and laying the sees hopefully for sometihng better down the road. I went through something alot similar 10 years ago and I was left with noone to turn to. I could not live with myself if I had the opurtunity to help someone in a simular situation and not be making myself available to help. When Josh has his world pulled back together to where he can comfortably manage it, I am confident that he and Jimm will afford the time to be more social. And i usually find it is often better to not slam the door on someone who has incovenienced me, cause it often will come back and bite me hard later on. I think cutting Jimm and Josh alot of slack is worth it since I think they are going about how to do more TOS Trek given their precious few frugal donated rescources and donated time and effort. ( On this note a Mega Kudos to Dennis Bailey for his time and effrot and patience wit hhis Exeter models in TTI. )