Modified TOS Enterprise

I know you said you were busy, but you gotta tell us how you did those smooth corners...

Vektor this is insane work. :: Jots down on PADD 'order straight jacket with TOS era coloring and badge embroidered onto the left breast :: :: Contemplates then notes 'AFTER FINISH CURRENT PROJECT' ::

:thumbsup:

I think I'm beginning to get the hang of box modeling, mesh smoothing and a few other techniques:






I used the chrome texture because it makes it easier to track down smoothing errors and because it just looks cool.

The un-smoothed base model for this is a little under 3,000 faces. The mesh smoothed version, on the other hand, weighs in at a whopping 40,000 faces. That's almost as much as my entire Constitution mesh! Then again, I've done absolutely nothing to optimize the mesh smoothing and I figure I can cut out 40-50% of the faces when all is said and done. Rendering time for these images with two ray-traced, shadow-casting light sources was about 10 seconds per image. I can back off to an intermediary step on the mesh smoothing and literally cut that in half.

More updates later this week, hopefully.

Wow. Simply stunning work. Before this I was satisfied with the way my Enterprise had turned out. Now, however, I believe I am going to have to rework just about everything. Still, can my computer handle 40,000 polygons for just the "simple" secondary hull?

Ah...ooh.

Looks like something you'd mix drinks in.

hey vektor! awesome work!

Could you set your program icons so we can know what program you are working in? It would help so we can gage what techniques you are using are something we can also use.

Also it shows what a program can do. So it inspires us to find a way since someone could do it with the same application.

Originally posted by neo6
OK, for those of us who dont know how you made those edges so smooth, PLEASE tell us. I NEED that advice to help with my own project.

Well, the first set of images was made using some creative geometry and some very tedious application of smoothing groups. The second set with the chrome material was made with the MeshSmooth modifier.

I don't have time for a full explanation right now, but the general technique is to create extra edges in the areas where you want sharper corners. For the most part, I used a one-two combination of zero-height extrusion and inward beveling to create those additional edges around each contiguous surface. Perhaps tonight I'll post a wireframe rendering to illustrate how the geometry underlying the MeshSmooth modifier is constructed.

Originally posted by neo6
How did you model the saucer, lathe, loft?:z:

Most of it was done with a lathed spline. I used a Free Form Deform modifier for the command module and a couple of other basic modeling techniques for the impulse engines. Nothing fancy. Probably will wind up redoing all of it, though, using some degree of MeshSmoothing like I just did with the secondary hull.

Originally posted by LightWaver3D
Still, can my computer handle 40,000 polygons for just the "simple" secondary hull?

Well, it's only 40,000 faces with two iterations on the MeshSmooth. The base mesh is less than 3,000. I can also back off to one iteration, which looks almost as good as two from a distance, and it's still under 7,000 faces.

The next step is to apply MeshSmoothing more selectively so it isn't creating additional geometry where it isn't needed. I'll probably have to modify the base model for that, though, so it's probably good for at least another week of tinkering.

Originally posted by thomas7g
Could you set your program icons so we can know what program you are working in? It would help so we can gage what techniques you are using are something we can also use.

Yeah, I've been meaning to do that for a while. Done.

thankies

Glad to see you are a Maxer.

But now you got the really annoying part left. The rear end. I'm sure you can do it. But Max's one real weakness IMHO is how it handles multiple booleans. And that makes life such a pain at times. Much more than it needs to be.

Originally posted by Vektor
I used the chrome texture because it makes it easier to track down smoothing errors and because it just looks cool.

You name it.

Originally posted by thomas7g
thankies

Glad to see you are a Maxer.

But now you got the really annoying part left. The rear end. I'm sure you can do it. But Max's one real weakness IMHO is how it handles multiple booleans. And that makes life such a pain at times. Much more than it needs to be.

My way around that has been to boolean, back up the file and then convert back to editable mesh. I guess I'm just be overcautious but it seems to produce good results.

Originally posted by thomas7g
But now you got the really annoying part left. The rear end. I'm sure you can do it. But Max's one real weakness IMHO is how it handles multiple booleans. And that makes life such a pain at times. Much more than it needs to be.

Hmm... I haven't had much difficulty with multiple booleans. In fact, I used at least three for the main body of the secondary hull in these latest images I've been posting.

As for the rear end, I assume you mean the hangar doors, cowling and fantail assembly. I've done this part before on my Constitution mesh and it was a bit of pain, but nothing really exceptional. I expect the hangar deck interior to be far more challenging and time consuming.

I just realized that my experience is a bit outdated. I still use max 3.

Updating costs money

This is for those who wondered how the soft edges and general smoothness were accomplished.

The basic control mesh:


The control mesh rendered:


The control mesh with two iterations of the MeshSmooth modifier applied:


And finally, the MeshSmoothed rendering:


With some tweaks and adjustments, I managed to cut the face count of the MeshSmoothed version down from almost 45,000 to a little over 20,000. At that rate, I might just be able to build this whole thing for under 100K.

Again, great work. This is a very impressive model.

Now then, could I make an image request? Does your control mesh have the cutout under the hangar bay in it, or was that just booleaned out later?

Erm....I guess I'm asking for a pic of the rear of the control mesh. Any possibility you could whip up a render and post it? Perhaps a 5-view: side, rear, bottom, front and perspective?

Keep it up!

Irongen

How come your other round shapes have more polys than the deflector dish? You can see the segmentation on the dish in the final render.

Originally posted by Vektor


For the most part, I used a one-two combination of zero-height extrusion and inward beveling to create those additional edges around each contiguous surface.

Forgive my ignorance, but perhaps you, or someone else, could take a minute to explain to me what a zero-height extrusion is. Are you extruding polygons, edges, or faces? Since I'm working on a TOS Enterprise mesh of my own, and trying to refine my technique, I'd be very interested to learn more.

BTW, your secondary hull looks fantastic. I can really appreciate the amount of time you took tinkering with it to achieve such a professional-looking result.

Zero-height extrusion is where you select a polygon or group of faces and extrude it by zero. This creates the new geometry that you'd get from a normal extrusion but keeps the selected faces in their original position. Then when you inward bevel them, what you wind up with is basically a new set of edges around the perimeter of the selected faces.

why don't you try the face extrude modifier instead. It gives less errors than extrude. plus you get a extrude height and scale spinners that allow you to quickly try different values.

A Vektor can I have the chrome mat file?

Originally posted by thomas7g
why don't you try the face extrude modifier instead. It gives less errors than extrude. plus you get a extrude height and scale spinners that allow you to quickly try different values.

For a couple of reasons: Because I usually know exactly which values I want to use to start with and I find it easier to extrude faces within a Mesh Edit modifier on the fly; and because Face Extrude's Scale spinner doesn't work quite the same way that an inward bevel does.

Okay, I went back to the drawing board yet again and this time I think I'm truly satisfied with the results.

First, a quick demonstration of the method I used to create those inset boxes on three sides of the secondary hull:







As you can see, once I had the lathed basic shape of the secondary hull, I used boolean operations to create the inset box. The boolean subtraction operation was actually very clean, but the subsequent boolean union was virtually guaranteed to produce mesh errors because of the overlapping surfaces on the face of the box. Fortunately, it wasn't too difficult to clean things up afterward with a Mesh Edit modifier.

And now, here's the secondary hull with all the mesh errors cleaned up, the edges rounded off and some finishing details added:



I'm especially pleased with how the smoothed edges came out. I used a combination of edge chamfering and the old zero-height extrusion/inward bevel trick. In some places, like the corner where the box and the curve of the sec hull cross each other, I did a massive amount of mesh editing to get it to come out just right.

By far the most complex feature was the oval shape at the back end of the inset box where it blends into the secondary hull. That thing was just plain nasty. Getting rid of the segmentation of the oval curve and getting it to blend just right was one of the hardest things I've ever attempted to model, period. Most of the geometry in that area was built and tweaked by hand over a period of two days to achieve the result you see here. I still need to tweak some of those points where the sharp edges above and below the box join with the hull.

I decided to go for a higher level of mesh resolution on this one so I could get in really close if I wanted to:



I'm also using a special lighting technique for these shots called an ambient light globe. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, I basically just arrayed a whole bunch of shadowmapped spotlights in a sphere around the model. It takes a lot longer to render but the effect is very similar to radiosity and can be quite realistic:




Next I'll be moving on the fantail and hangar deck area before starting on the modeled windows (ugh!). But first, would anyone care to take a guess at the current face count of this model as seen in the above renderings?

40,000?

btw I feel your pain on the mesh editing. I did the same thing. Almost to the same extent you did, but I didn't smooth the intersection to the deflectorhousing. Itsa pain in the arse. That and the adft area is why I really hate the secondary hull. Modeled the sucker at least 5 times as I kept changing my design to get the model closer to the actual ship.

The secondary hull is deceptively evil.

btw- is camphering a modifier in your version of max? I have that option in the creation of pimitive, and in some modifiers like bevel, but I don't have it alone as a modifier. If it is a modifier, I really think that its a good idea. And wish I had it.

Originally posted by thomas7g
40,000?

Ack!

If that's a serious guess, you need to come WAY down. If it helps, I am no longer using any kind of meshsmoothing on this model.

LOL

I was wondering if you had some insane amount of facets.

I figured that you will probably hit about 200,000 to 400,000 facets with your completed mesh. i did a quick subtraction of the saucer and nacelles, subtracted 20,000 for the shuttle bay, and another 10,000 for details....and well...I probably should have gone alot lower! LOL

Vector: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
That is a truly beautiful piece of work. As I am about to start on the secondary hull for my model I've been following this string with interest. What happened to the meshsmooth idea? Where can I fing out more about "the old zero-height extrusion/inward bevel trick"?

btw- that array of rods, the way it extends foreward, ...

Are you using picks of the Muraecki(sp?) renovation of the E?