STAR TREK GENERAL DISCUSSION

[gmd3d]

Phase II (formerly known as New Voyages) and Starship Farragut.

I like them too. gaining credibility with the orignal cast members from TOS joining in in the production. Some of the early Enterprise shots where disappointing but they have improved
on that since.

I caught a bit of one of the first parts of the first episode.
It looked pretty cool to me and like it must be a lot of fun to work on.

Speaking of sub-standard effects... Am I the only one who thinks that in the new remastered Trek (tos) they could have done much better with their CG Enterprise shots?

I like the idea they've done but I think any one of us here could have animated the CG scenes way better than whoever did them for the show.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

Speaking of sub-standard effects... Am I the only one who thinks that in the new remastered Trek (tos) they could have done much better with their CG Enterprise shots?

I like the idea they've done but I think any one of us here could have animated the CG scenes way better than whoever did them for the show.

I have seen a few shots of the Enterprise from the remastered Episodes
but only in a small screen and the quality was not very good.. But I did hear
your points about the Enterprise Shots..

The ship is sort of 'ghosty' looking and there is no specularity (sic) on it. It looks like the old wooden model. When I heard they were going to update it I was knee deep in my own Trek thing (I was doing a CG version of TAS 'Pirates of Orion') and using the 'Buckky' ship.
If you've ever seen it or used it you know it's a pretty solid mesh and looks fantastic when it's animated and in motion. I was expecting that from the remastered version.

What I saw made my jaw drop.

I mean this when I say it and it's not to blow smoke - But you, Warrior and Evil Genius have each made meshes (shared here) that smoke the one they use in the show and even though I am a hobby level animator even I know their lighting is awful.

In my shots I always have a 'sun' that throws some sort of colour in the light to set the mood of the scene. There isn't one single instance of that in the NewTOS episodes. Not that I've seen. Anyway... I don't want to sound like a nasty vent so I'll stop now. LOL!

I just know that if you guys can make a mesh that looks better then theirs and I can animate a scene better than theirs, then why in the (expletive deleted!) didn't we get paid to do that 'upgrade'? LOL!

[gmd3d]

Well I never built the Enterprise .. and possibly never will

Originally Posted by Taranis

Well I never built the Enterprise .. and possibly never will

Yes, but if your other work is any indication of your relative level of skill, I still say you'd build a better one than the one they used.

But that's just my opinion.

[gmd3d]

Thanks ..

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Taranis

I like them too. gaining credibility with the orignal cast members from TOS joining in in the production. Some of the early Enterprise shots where disappointing but they have improved
on that since.

Their best, IMO, was To Serve All My Days, in terms of the models. The models had nice textures and there were some great effects (though they all had those.) IMO, they went a step backwards with World Enough and Time, the Enterprise really didn't seem to have any specular mapping. Having said that, I like the way they did the effects in the first 2 episodes and the little vignette, they really had an original look to them. (even if their textures kinda sucked) I'm not as big on the "emulation" effects in the later 2 episodes.

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

Speaking of sub-standard effects... Am I the only one who thinks that in the new remastered Trek (tos) they could have done much better with their CG Enterprise shots?

No question. I wonder why they even bothered when they don't look any better than the original effects, IMO. (at least the original has the excuse of being made in the '60s)

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

Their best, IMO, was To Serve All My Days, in terms of the models. The models had nice textures and there were some great effects (though they all had those.) IMO, they went a step backwards with World Enough and Time, the Enterprise really didn't seem to have any specular mapping. Having said that, I like the way they did the effects in the first 2 episodes and the little vignette, they really had an original look to them. (even if their textures kinda sucked) I'm not as big on the "emulation" effects in the later 2 episodes.



No question. I wonder why they even bothered when they don't look any better than the original effects, IMO. (at least the original has the excuse of being made in the '60s)

I have the newvoyges some where on disc I must look for them.. I also liked Starship Farragut they had some nice touched in it.. and as they where orignal characters you can look beyond the TOS.


The new effects sound really bad to see on a TV .. on the net is one thing but in HD . ???

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Taranis

The new effects sound really bad to see on a TV .. on the net is one thing but in HD . ???

Yeah, dude, I've got an 11 year old TV and I'm not blown away. I bet people with HDTVs are really unhappy because this whole "Remastered" thing was supposed to be for them. Basically, to draw a comparison you'll identify with, the "Remastered" Enterprise has textures that are barely better than the ones on the first couple episodes of New Voyages. In fact, they're worse in some places, like the bussards. The hull has no specularity to speak of and the bussards basically look like pale orange globes with a fan and ten glowing circles inside. It's pretty bad. And some of their planet textures look low quality also.

I'm glad I'm not the only one around here who sees the remastered episodes and thinks 'WTF?!'.

I've said it before but I've seen far better meshes and renderings here than on that show.
Either that's pretty sad for them or pretty cool for us. LOL!

[evil_genius_180]

I was watching them at first but I've lost interest due to the fact that they're not better than the original. Since I have the whole series on DVD (with the original effects that I still love) I don't feel the need to watch the "Remastered" ones at all, especially with all the syndication cuts.

[gmd3d]

I still like the TOS effects .. If I had a wish list of things I'd like to see . would be other views of the ship .. and the unseen ships from Some episodes ..

Originally Posted by Taranis

I still like the TOS effects .. If I had a wish list of things I'd like to see . would be other views of the ship .. and the unseen ships from Some episodes ..

That's something else that bothers me about the remasters - you'd think that since they have the ability now they'd shoot the ship from cooler camera angles and have it do cooler stuff.

I do have to at least give them 1 point for this.
In the 'Arena' episode the Gorn blinks in a few scenes.
So at least there is that. LOL!

I still can't figure out how somebody got paid to do that bad of a job on what should have been an outstanding upgrade.

[evil_genius_180]

Yeah, the problem with them emulating the original effects is a sore spot with me as well. They occasionally do something unexpected but those times are few and far between. Another thing that bothers me is that, if you're going to redo effects, do them all. They occasionally redo some of the effects that aren't external shots (forcefield effects, for example) but it's rare. If they're going to do that, they could at least redo all of those kind of effects, including the hand phaser effects, which they never touch.

[gmd3d]

Should do the whole thing .. I remember reading that the effect team had a terrible time trying to get them done ,, so much so one had a brake down.. as most where unusable.

[evil_genius_180]

They should just leave TOS as-is and start over, like they did with BSG, if they want TOS with new effects, IMO.

[gmd3d]

Well having said that I don't like the new BSG .. But I can see where your coming from ...

COme to think of it .. I have not watch a TOS episode in while ..

[evil_genius_180]

It's either that or cut a deal with James Cawley and get Phase II on TV. That show is much better than the new film looks like it's going to be. Imagine what those guys could do with a budget.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

It's either that or cut a deal with James Cawley and get Phase II on TV. That show is much better than the new film looks like it's going to be. Imagine what those guys could do with a budget.

I was watching an interview today with Cawley and he has a small part in it ..
cannot remember now here I saw it . if I remember I will post it.

[evil_genius_180]

It's on the Phase II forums for sure. I lurk over there at least once a day.

If any of you are interested here are some shots from the new movie.

http://movies.yahoo.com/photos/colle...-photos#photo0

[evil_genius_180]

Thanks dude.

I'm sort of excited about the new film and sort of not.

I think the casting looks great as far as this being what they (the characters) would have looked like and I can't wait to see what the Enterprise will look like in our more 'up to date' world.

But I think it would have been nice if they had gone on and told us some other story about other people in another Starship.

Although I know 100% full well I'm going to be there seeing it on opening night.
I can't 'not' do it.
LOL!

[gmd3d]

But I think it would have been nice if they had gone on and told us some other story about other people in another Starship.

yes .. this is something I would like. but not in the early TOS era, but the late
TOS era the TMP era in fact, on board 2nd generation Enterprise class starship
USS ENDEAVOUR NCC-WHATEVER.

some design. bridge etc.

Called Star Trek Lost Years

Originally Posted by Taranis

yes .. this is something I would like. but not in the early TOS era, but the late
TOS era the TMP era in fact, on board 2nd generation Enterprise class starship
USS ENDEAVOUR NCC-WHATEVER.

some design. bridge etc.

Called Star Trek Lost Years

Well, I'm sort of glad they didn't since my Trek story takes place in that time period aboard a different Starship. LOL!

In fact, my Captain and his Ship aren't special in any way- they're not the flagship anything... They're an old ship with computer and other upgrades. Sort of like a guy who's a C student. LOL!

That's why they're sent on this mission - because they're expendable.

Then agian, I probably already to you that. LOL!

[gmd3d]

yeah .. but it the era I like best ..

Originally Posted by Taranis

yeah .. but it the era I like best ..

Mine takes place near the end of the TOS-TMP era.
Really it's pretty much in that era but wanted to have red in my nacells too.
But the core of everything story wise is TMP era.

What I don't know is the exact date time like that would place it in.
Would you?


BTW - Awesome avatar!

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

Mine takes place near the end of the TOS-TMP era.
Really it's pretty much in that era but wanted to have red in my nacells too.
But the core of everything story wise is TMP era.

What I don't know is the exact date time like that would place it in.
Would you?


BTW - Awesome avatar!

Well I like to think that Kirk and co had a second 5 year mission after TMP
and before kirks transfer to the Academy.
yours could be year later .. what uniforms will your crew have??

I like the look of that 80s Flash Gordon Movie and the Queen song are great
and Ming is a great villein.. over the top and fun

I love that 'Flash Gordon' film. The wedding dress that Dale wears is one of the coolest things ever. LOL!

My crew wears uniforms from TWoK era. They're my favorite ones.
I have a much larger test-wip file if you'd like to see it.
I have some bridge shots and a couple more shots of the ship and nebula.

There are some elements of the story that I'm thinking of moving around a bit though.
One of them was that the story took place onboard a Constitution-A class ship with updated computers and warp engines but after seeing the Phase II ship I switched to that one with 1701-A nacells for the upgrade. As for the bridge computers I might just leave them alone (in the TWoK) style not make my own custom ones. When I first started the project I didn't have a bridge that looked right so I used 1/2 Olympus and 1/2 of another one - I can't recall which bridge it was at this point. But that bridge used the LCARs screens and I didn't want it to be set that far in the future so I had to make computer screens that looked less high-tech.

At this point I'm going to use the bridge from TWoK because it's a small room and stays within my theme of 'little ship in vast ocean'.

If you want to see the bigger version my WIP file let me know and I'll post it in the other thread. The file is something like 70mb and runs on a DivX codec so you'll be able to see a lot more of the details that got lost in the WMV version.