Starship Exeter: Exeter Rising" Fan Story mini-series

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Robert Simmons

I choose to not disrespect them, since I think they have done the best Trek fan film out there and I want to openly give them my unwavering support. Jimm and Josh have been burned before by those they took into their previous trust, and they are understandablywary of extenbing that again and it takes time to gain trust of those who have been by those professing enthusiasm for their deep time cash and efforts out of their own pockets to make what we have seen of Exeter. And they are very concerned about not making that same mistake TWICE. And I can't say that I blame them either and wisah to make it clear that i am in no way speaking ill of them and do not wish to appear of wanting to speak ill of them. They deserve their proper respect for what they have done, and i in no way wish to take away form them that. The wife has me strapped in cash so I can't support them financially in cash donations. So I try to support them in other ways. Some people have come to the conclusion that they may be "insert unflattering term here", but I choose to be understanding and not disrespect them which I think would VERY COUNTER-PRODCUTIVE TO my goals that incidentally co-incide with theirs ...and which for me which is a ancillary bonus wanting to see more Exeter in the future. I recommend it heartily. I consider myself forgiving...after all we all want that shown to us, and showing it serves no harm to them. In fact inthe long term I think it will be of a tremendous benefit. All I need to do is be cool and be patient like we all should. None of us is perfect and most certainly have little patience to spare when we are focused on the things we want to accomplish and life tosses major setbacks in the way like Josh's recent divorce and his dealing with putting his life back on track. I have some friends who are close to him and even they have dropped some hints he is majorly miserable given having his life turned upside down. IN fact this one event has from what little I hear has helped Jimm and Josh become closer as brothers which is good and from what i hears is helping to pave the way for more Exeter episodes to potentially be made after TTI is finished. I know little and think this is a special set of circumstances where some understanding would be positive and laying the sees hopefully for sometihng better down the road. I went through something alot similar 10 years ago and I was left with noone to turn to. I could not live with myself if I had the opurtunity to help someone in a simular situation and not be making myself available to help. When Josh has his world pulled back together to where he can comfortably manage it, I am confident that he and Jimm will afford the time to be more social. And i usually find it is often better to not slam the door on someone who has incovenienced me, cause it often will come back and bite me hard later on. I think cutting Jimm and Josh alot of slack is worth it since I think they are going about how to do more TOS Trek given their precious few frugal donated rescources and donated time and effort. ( On this note a Mega Kudos to Dennis Bailey for his time and effrot and patience wit hhis Exeter models in TTI. )

It is a wise approach. wait and see what happens .. and I have seen Dennis Exeter Models .. // great work .. and as Dennis uses Lightwave I watch what he does with great interest

as you own project develops and they see it .,. they may approach you. ??

[evil_genius_180]

I certainly didn't want to disrespect these guys and I understand them wanting to do their stories. It is their project, after all. I just thought they could have responded a little more tactfully to you when you submitted your ideas. But it's definitely their choice on how they want to run things. I still need to look over your ideas you posted earlier in this thread myself and I still need to download the two Starhip Exeter episodes (which will take a while) and watch those. I've heard from others that those guys really captured the feel of TOS better than some of the other fan film projects, so they obviously know what they're doing.

If the fan film 'business' is anything like the music business - tacful means a sledge hammer. LOL!


"Any artist who takes their fans for granted is a fool. It's by the good grace of the fans that you're allowed to get up there and even have a job." - Ronnie James Dio (great singer & way cool guy)

[evil_genius_180]

You'd think the fan film business would be a little more like the independent film business, as opposed to the big Hollywood scene, but you never know.

These basically are independent films and nobody gets anything from them except a big hearty pat on the back, so that means they certainly have final say as to what goes on. But they could just be a little nicer to a fan submitting ideas is all I'm saying. At least politely say "We're not accepting stories right now." (I guess I'm just used to going to the Phase II forums where they have a thread and that's the title.) It's not painful for either party to say or hear that and is a lot nicer than ignoring the idea completely. But that's just how I'd do it. If I ever did a fan film, it would be completely CGI anyway and would probably be a one-time thing.

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

You'd think the fan film business would be a little more like the independent film business, as opposed to the big Hollywood scene, but you never know.

These basically are independent films and nobody gets anything from them except a big hearty pat on the back, so that means they certainly have final say as to what goes on. But they could just be a little nicer to a fan submitting ideas is all I'm saying. At least politely say "We're not accepting stories right now." (I guess I'm just used to going to the Phase II forums where they have a thread and that's the title.) It's not painful for either party to say or hear that and is a lot nicer than ignoring the idea completely. But that's just how I'd do it. If I ever did a fan film, it would be completely CGI anyway and would probably be a one-time thing.

Oh I totally know where you're coming from. I've done a lot of 'pet projects' for friends and got paid in 'thanks' - The Star Wars thing I threw together for my cousins is a good example of that. No, it's not great but when you're 13-14 it's pretty cool.

I think that it's really important to listen to the input from people outside your project because all too often when you're nose is on the grindstone and you're busting your ba...er, hump... to get the shot, scene, mesh part - whatever - you can lose site of other parts of the project.

In the music business no matter if it's a simple demo or a full on album - you NEVER mix the same day you record. It's because you're too close to the project and you're seeing the song for what it is - not what it could be.

I have my 'main' animated short films that I've invested a couple of years of my life into and I'l less likey to take outside advice regarding them than I am with something I'm throwing together - but I am still open to that outside advice because you never know where the next cool story is going to come from.

I've been working on my own Trek animated short (as you know) and when somebody saw my nebula test they approached me with an idea that was 'waaaaaaay' outside of the box my Trek story is taking place - but I thought about their suggestion and it was really cool so now my main Trek story is on hold while I work on 'the other guys' story.

I think it's important for an artist to have vision and to have their hands on the creative wheel, but it's just as important to listen to everybody around you - from the highest to the lowest position - because you never - never - know where the next great story or idea is going to come from.

Only a fool ignores that.

Well...just because I downloaded Blender and Truspace doesn't mean I'm not flexible. Jsut tell me which one you think is the easiest to get up and accomplishing something and I'll download it and start there.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Robert Simmons

Well...just because I downloaded Blender and Truspace doesn't mean I'm not flexible. Jsut tell me which one you think is the easiest to get up and accomplishing something and I'll download it and start there.

Well the easiest way to answer that is .. Its user preference. I have tried both and never really got into them. I use lightwave and I work best with that.

But having said that. I think you looking at a mixture of programs to accomplish what you want..
(I hasten to add I am not an animator so I don't know Which of the programs would be best).

TRUESPACE
BLENDER
you can use for Space shots .. (it will be up to you to see which one will suit your learning curve)

DAZ and Poser
For your Crew scene .. Bridge and other sets can be found in poser
http://www.sharecg.com/pf/full_uploa..._name=mylochka


here is a sample I found on you tube . give you an idea .. not sure what program
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ey31YCsJ5E

you better of I think getting a team on board .. to animate ships in space is one thing , character animation is another

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Robert Simmons

Well...just because I downloaded Blender and Truspace doesn't mean I'm not flexible. Jsut tell me which one you think is the easiest to get up and accomplishing something and I'll download it and start there.

The easiest? That's a matter of perspective. For one thing, Blender and trueSpace are almost total opposites. Blender uses completely menu-driven commands that require you to know by name what each little menu and tool does and which tool brings up the sub-menu you need and, in turn, what each thing on the sub-menu does. trueSpace uses an all button interface, with buttons for each and every tool. So, you have to know where every little button is and what it does. So, because of that, a modeler who started out using Blender will tell you that trueSpace is too confusing and Blender is easier. On the other hand, a modeler who learned trueSpace (like me) will tell you the opposite. There are tool tips on both but they're not necessarily that helpful.

If you're just starting out, you might want to consider trying a smaller program like Wings. Because it's smaller, it's a lot less daunting than either trueSpace or Blender because the interface is much more simple. It's menu driven like Blender but there are a lot less bells and whistles to its interface but that takes nothing away from the modeling. I only use it for a few simple functions that I like better in it than trueSpace but some people use it for their main modeling app. and I've seen some outstanding work done in Wings.

And I also hear Daz and Poser are pretty easy too and are great for character animation.

Wings...Daz and Poser.

Okay I'll start there downloading tonight and installing them tomorrow. It looks like the 56k dailup model is gonna get a workout tonight.

Thanks for the inside gist.

Time to make a post of coffee.

Here's something I threw together last night after watching that 'Kirk Head Test' clip Taranis posted the link to.

It's a bit rough but so was I last night. LOL!

[gmd3d]

outstanding .. you did it last night ,, hell it would take me a month to do that

Yep, that was done in about 2 hours last night when I was totally hammered.
LOL!
I did it some time around 4am or so.

I was tying to see how difficult it would be to use MIMIC with an audio track that had other sound data in it. It made it a lot more difficult but I think with a sober few hours I would be able to do it pretty well.

Okay I am downloading Wings now. Is there a demo / free earlier version of Poser or poser-like app like the other software?

I also was able to find what i tihnk is a very good Klingon D7 mesh done by Eric PEterson. It has alot of markings on it and is a darker color .I would want to lighten them up to match the color of the ships in my shot A3-1. Is there a way to edit someone else's mesh to bring them more in line with the markigns, color? I plan on doing this to the Enterprise mesh is anyone recommnds one so I can make 5 copies of it wit hthe name and registry numbers of the Republic ( before and after being blown up...), Constitution, Hood, Potemkin, and Exeter. I*'ll need this done. I have the amarillo type fon that was used on the 11 foot TOS shooting model of the Enterprise. Since Exeter uses the Frans Joseph numbers I'll stick with their numbering scheme except the Republic which Kirk named as NCC-1371.

Much Thanks....

Originally Posted by Robert Simmons

Okay I am downloading Wings now. Is there a demo / free earlier version of Poser or poser-like app like the other software?

I also was able to find what i tihnk is a very good Klingon D7 mesh done by Eric PEterson. It has alot of markings on it and is a darker color .I would want to lighten them up to match the color of the ships in my shot A3-1. Is there a way to edit someone else's mesh to bring them more in line with the markigns, color? I plan on doing this to the Enterprise mesh is anyone recommnds one so I can make 5 copies of it wit hthe name and registry numbers of the Republic ( before and after being blown up...), Constitution, Hood, Potemkin, and Exeter. I*'ll need this done. I have the amarillo type fon that was used on the 11 foot TOS shooting model of the Enterprise. Since Exeter uses the Frans Joseph numbers I'll stick with their numbering scheme except the Republic which Kirk named as NCC-1371.

Much Thanks....

first part: Is there a Poser Like demo? I'd call that one 'Daz Studio'. Only it's not a demo it's a full on program. The deal with Daz Studio is that the people over at Daz3D take the chance that when you use D|S you'll like it enough to pony up the cash for Carrara. It worked that way with me. For being FREE, DazStudio is one of the best programs you can get for doing GC rendering. If you don't yet have it, I'd suggest it. It's well worth the download time.

second part: You can lighten up the marking on the other guy's mesh if you know how to use a program like Photoshop or even Micsoft Paint. Before you modify the original mesh, make sure you save a backup in case you screw up the mesh. (I know, the one in your download file is already a back up - but do it anyway - it never hurts to be in the habbit of backing up your data!)

Once you have modified your texture you simply load up the mesh and then (depening on the software you're using) you just go and replace the existing texture with your own or the software will do it for you.. Now, keep in mind some meshes that do not have much detail to them do not use a texture map but instead use a color selected inside the modeling/rendering software.

Note: Say the orignal mesh is called 'Hull-Bottom-DIFF.jpg' - you modify it to your new look and then if you save it (with the same name) most of the time the mesh will 'auto-load' your new texture. When I do this, I tend to give the new/modified mesh a slightly different name so that I don't confuse my texture with that of the original.

Expect to trip over your own feet a few times. This is normal and expected but once you get rolling you should be be able to modify most any mesh. There are some meshes that are more difficult than others but I don't expect you'll be running into them any time soon. *cough*dennis bailey's1701-A*cough*

I have converted a lot of meshes and it might be a little frustrating at first (or not ) but once you get the hang of it you be rolling right along.

If you need further explination of a step or clarification just say so and I or somebody else will be able to guide you through the step.



Good luck and weclome to a fantastic world of story telling expression.

[gmd3d]

The only mesh out there that has all the name and registry numbers of the Constitution fleet is Fabio Passaro and that's in lightwave .. there is also a Klingon BC here .. also in lightwave .. all the registry are 3d objects so they can be converted ..
Constellation_Registry.lwo
Constitution_Registry.lwo
Defiant_Registry.lwo
Eagle_Registry.lwo
Endeavour_Registry.lwo
Enterprise_Registry.lwo
Essex_Registry.lwo
Excalibur_Registry.lwo
Exeter_Registry.lwo
Hood_Registry.lwo
Intrepid_Registry.lwo
Lexington_Registry.lwo
Potemkin_Registry.lwo
Republic_Registry.lwo
Yorktown_Registry.lwo
So if your using Truespace .. you can ask some on to convert (pending Fabios permission) to an ObJ file .... then you can import in to Truespace.

I think Truespace can import OBJ..
..
as the the colouring of the Klingon BC .. Well there should be a Surface or Material Editor
to alter the hull colour .. or if it Textures (Images) you have to use a painting program to alter them..

Just earlier downloaded the Fed model and the Klingon models by Eric Peterson. It says they are in .RAR format ( I think...I was in a hurry downlaoding many things....) I need to know what app can open and manipulate that format.

I just checkedthe Daz Studio download.....127 meg!!!!! GAG!!!

I've done only one other download htat size on a 56k modem.

It looks like it's gonna be an all nighter.......

Thanks for the recommendations guys.....

WinRAR is used to decompress .RAR files.

I read somewhere that if you download DAZ Studio without all of the additional contect (i.e Victoria base) that it knocks the file size way down.

Sorry to hear about the dial-up connection.
I've had broadband for so many years that even last year when I was living in rural Indiana I used a satellite uplink so I could have fast access.

Do you have any friends with broadband who you could ask to download some stuff for you and burn a disc or two? I'm not talking warez/pir8 stuff either - just to clarify - but legal stuff like DazStuido and some of the meshes you'll want to use. I'm sure that would make a huge difference.

Nahh...I'm 8 meg into the download now. It'll take around 6 to 8 hours. I've done it before. I rechecked and I was wrong...it is 115 meg for the Daz download. The biggest download I've pushed through a 56k dailup is 130 meg. I did that a couple of years ago with one of the TOS Trek fanfilms. I don't remember which one it was.

So do I download WinRAR? Where do I find it. After this I think I'll also download that 60 day lightwave 3D trial demo. I might as well play around with each since Dennnis is kicking buytt with it.

My main first goal is....

1. To open in each app the starship and Klingon models and then manipulate them to match the shots I need.

2. I then will then as my second goal will then need to download those variants models/ skins of the TOS Enterprise.

3. And then I will need to make a additional modified one of the wrecked USS Republic. That will be 2 models of the Republic...one good and one wrecked.

4. And then I will need to modify the color and markings of the klingon ship model to match shot A3-1 to a light metallick gray with a hint of Process Cyan mixed in to match the oriigional bluelight bleed reflection back onto the origional shooting models in 1969. A grainy filter will needed for the final look for everything when I am done.

I also think pretty soon I will also be picking up where I left off in the hand drawn animatics and finish the second half of the effects reel. I'll be posting htem here as well like I have been on Dennis's site.

Wow..this is moving pretty fast on the download tonight. I'm already up to 11 meg on the download. At this rate I'll be done before 3am....

Well, if you don't know where you saved the program (tsk-bad habbit!) you can always do a 'search' for it on your machine. If you're on a Windows platform it's a simple task, probably is for a MAC too. Once you find where you placed the program (assuming you've virus scanned it or got if from a trustworth site) just install it and it'll also set the file associations so that your machine knows to use it to open RAR files. It may also want to become the default for ZIP files.

Speaking of which - if you have WinZIP installed you could open the RAR files with it as well.

Lightwave is a fantastic piece of software and one of my favorite programs.
Two things got me to use that app... 1) The New Battlestar Galactica (awesome effects!) and (2) Dennis Bailey's 1701-A mesh. I saw that mesh and felt like a girl looking at 'The Beatles' if you catch my drift.

I still think that D|S is exactly what you need right now.
It's been a while since I've messed with it but I know Carrara can render to animated GIF so there is a chance that it's little brother will as well.

Hey...it's my wife's windows manchine. Mine is a Mac running Mac OS 9.2 and can't run any of the mac software. The wife has been gratious to let me load all this new 3D software on her machine. I'll look for the WInZip and WinRAR right after the download....

With a lot of the CG apps out there you might not need to do a 'physical damage' ship.
You can easily make an ALPHA MAP and then place your 'wreckage' inside that area.
It will sell the effect.
That's how I did this shot.
If you'd like help with this let me know and I'll try to assist you with it - depending on which program you use. I say right now the only thing I know about TrueSpace is that a couple of guys around here are wizards with it.

Images 1 and 2 are the same render - the only difference is that I added a post production muzzle flash.

Image 3 (the close up) will give you a good idea of using an ALPHA MAP to simulate damge.

I got error messages regaring the image files - so here is the url to them

http://wabashponies.com/dan/Shot-1.bmp

http://wabashponies.com/dan/Shot-2.bmp

All of these are done in Carrara Pro 6.

Well for someone who has little experience..these communicate alot. These could pass easily for game shots. And I know people do get paid to render in that quality of output.

Thises look nice. The close up of the face offers encouragment in being able to make and use the models for the characters. So then my concern turns to being able to create expressions on the face witohut them looking like mannequins. I hope all this tuff has that kind of control of the characters.

'...Well for someone who has little experience..these communicate alot. '

Actually I've been animating since early 2,000 and I've rendered about 200 hours of footage.


If you use the DAZ figures you can get 'real' skins for them.
There are human textures for them that are shot of actual people.
The level of realism is quite strong.

As for the close up - When you render Arnie as the Teh-ma-nay-ta he should have a bit of a waxy look. LOL!

What you see there are still shots from an animated segment I created for a friend who wanted to do a fan video with a Terminator theme (youtube stuff).

The close up is an ALPHA MAP applied to the skin texture and a skuill prop inside the head. The ALPHA MAP created the 'hole' in the skin and I didn't need to make a phyical modification to the mesh.

You can use that to 'shatter' part of the starship and place (like the skull) your rooms inside. I can make you an example shot if you'd like.

Sure. Kind of like applying a bandaid on the surface of the model so I don't need to change it. Just a add on....

Happy to see a demo. And I wasn't trying to shortchange you. Your modest made me think from your previous posts that you weren't a modelor but a animator. Still way mjore than I can do....I like the output.

I think it is doable for what I want....

I'm up to 21 meg on the downlaod so far.....

Originally Posted by Robert Simmons

Sure. Kind of like applying a bandaid on the surface of the model so I don't need to change it. Just a add on....

Happy to see a demo. And I wasn't trying to shortchange you. Your modest made me think from your previous posts that you weren't a modelor but a animator. Still way mjore than I can do....I like the output.

I think it is doable for what I want....

I'm up to 21 meg on the downlaod so far.....

No worries.
I can model but when you place my work next to the masters who hang out here or a guy like Dennis, then nope - I can't model my way out of a wet paper bag. LOL!

I taught myself some basic modeling abilities with the hope that later I could find a good couple of modelers and have them bring my basic designs 'to life'.
I started animating years ago because I have some (IMO) really cool stories that I'd like to see made into films but since I don't have a crew of a few thousand and several million dollars I figured that an animated version would do nicely.

My animations are (when finished) going to be to me what a 'demo tape' is to a band and I plan on using them an animated storyboards and with luck, have at least one optioned into a real live action film.

I do fan film work as a way of teaching myself new tricks and sharpening my hooks so that when I do jump in the deep end and beging working on one of my 'serious' animated films I'll have enough skill to pull it off.

I'm thinking of sharing my early work with the guys around here because it's interesting to see the actual progress that a self taught bozo like myself has gone through.

On a side note - I got into comptuers becuase I was in a professional rock/metla band and I needed something to keep my occupied in my down time...It's way too easy to party to death when you're bored... but start animating and you're hardly ever bored.

[mikala]

Oh now here's an interesting thread!
I'll second the genius that is EG180. He's got a real way with Trek ships especially the reimagined series he's done.
Everyone that has given you input so far has a lot of talent. Barring me of course

My story is that i started a local Japanese animation fan club here in 1986. I got connected with fans in other clubs around the country and stayed in touch with them when they went to Japan to become animators. I had one who got to work in the undistry in the latter 80s and early 1990s who worked with some of the big name peple and artist behind the shows and the comics htey were based in . I had no family support and got stuck sacking groceries, delivering pizza and stocking grocieres. It was hard not being hardly able to afford to survive let alone begin to find a way to pay to go to animation svhool in Jap-an withj my friends when my familiy abslutely hated what I was trying to do with a passion. Oh well.....That dream of mine died a violent kicking and screaming bitter death in 1993. I've mellowed out over time and picked myself back up.

Originally Posted by mikala

Oh now here's an interesting thread!
I'll second the genius that is EG180. He's got a real way with Trek ships especially the reimagined series he's done.
Everyone that has given you input so far has a lot of talent. Barring me of course

Thank you. I have been charmed by the more than warm reception and hospitality on this board. It's been much appreciated and I ahve been telling my friends about it in a VERY POSITIVE WAY. At least one has been checking out the site since i first told him....

[mikala]

Well that is the beauty of the net and the abilities you can have access to now.
Movies can be made on your home box now!
Good luck with this enterprise. I hope it all goes well.
Yes I know there is a pun there but I could not think of a better word.